Playback
>From elric@imryrr Fri Dec 7 10:46:31 1990
From: elric@imryrr (Rick Heli)
To: allan@Sun.COM, andrewh@pyr.csuhayward.edu, elric@Eng, kmarks@Eng
Subject: Re: DoD/WiF summary - 1936
[My comments added as "US comment"]
>From andrewh@pyr.csuhayward.edu Thu Dec 6 21:55:58 1990
From: Andrew Hung
To: allan@Sun.COM, elric@Eng, kmarks@Eng
Subject: DoD/WiF summary - 1936
Well, here is the breakdown on that interesting game of DoD/WiF. I would
appreciate it if you guys send me some comments, especially in term of the
decisions by the Allies.
Let's clarify one thing, the Axis main objective was the swift destruction
of Russia. I am still unsure if Germany would have gone for France or just
build the Siegfield line and hold the Allies off until Russia is dead.
The format is similar to the earlier article, but will list the winner of
the initiative first. Notation next to option indicated P for Primary, and
S for Secondary. Only those minors which have +/- will be listed. I forgot
to record a number of things(money on track, US entry roll...), so this is
not very complete.
US Comment: Allied objectives were to try to maximize forces in
the home country and to explore possibility of early
termination of Japanese ambitions. The first is
perhaps unrealistic in light of the relative sizes of
minor nation armies -- the second never really found
a true test.
One more thing, a number of errors were found after the end of the game.
So the issue is still undecided on whether DoD is a viable addition to WiF.
Despite the moaning and whining of the Russia/France player, I still believe
that the module gave us a unique chance to recreate history along a slightly
different path. Afterall, some of the decisions made at that time were found
later to be based on eitherly false assumptions. :-)
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Political Initiative Rolls:
Win 2-1 3-1 6-1
------------------------
Axis 9 1 5 0
Allies 4 1 2 0
------------------------
Total 13 2 7 0
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1936
----
Jan/Feb Init. Rolls: 1,5(Axis) - 1,1(Allies)
Axis - 16S Germany occupies the Rhineland, offer mil. support to Belgium.
Allies - 12P US gears up PM from 1/8 to 1/4
Minors - Belg(-6), Bulg(+2), Czech(-3), Den(+1), Fin(+2), Greece(-2),
Iraq(+2), Neth(-4), Norway(-1), Persia(+1), Pol(-3), Port(+1),
Turk(+2)
Build - Japan(I,AC), Russia(I), France(I)
US entry - 0
Comment: Since the Axis goofed, we didn't take advantage of the 5-1
on the init. roll. However, the goal is set to get back
the Rhineland and to swing the Benelux countries toward us.
US Comment: Our goal was to get US production going early so as to
have a powerful force coming into the war. Playing this
early would give us time to suck up to US public opinion
later. We were not anticipating this magnitude of Axis
emphasis on the collection of minors.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mar/Apr Init. Rolls: 3(Axis) - 2(Allies)
Axis - 19S Germany NA pact with Czech, moratorium on build.
Allies - 17P (failed) Russo-Japan NA pact offered.
Minors - Aust(-1), Belg(-2), Czech(-5), Den(-2), Fin(+1), Greece(-2),
Hun(+3), Iraq(+1), Neth(-2), Nor(-1), Persia(-1), Pol(-2),
Port(+1), Spain-R(-1), Swed(-1), Turk(-1), Yugo(+1)
Build - Japan(2I)
US entry - 0 Coup cell - Turkey(CW), Greece(IT)
Comment: I'm not entirely convinced that the NA pact should be played
due to the ratio of - vs + (10 to 8, with 2(-2)) on the minors.
However, I was glad it failed since it gave me an extra turn
to consider. I was hoping to decline it in 1937 which mean
the US entry advancement is not an automatic. I would say it
was a good play by the Allies which is doomed to be declined,
due to my initial setup. One thing about coup cells, we
(the Axis) have agreed to buy one every turn if possible.
US Comment: I believe this play was valid to forestall Japanese
ambitions in Vladivostok. The Japanese army was
crowded all about this area with nothing but powerful
white print units. The USSR could probably not have
withstood this onslaught -- this option gave us breathing
room. Perhaps it should have been delayed a turn
though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May/Jun Init. Roll: 4,4(Allies) - 4,1(Axis)
Allies - 17P Russo-Japan NA pact offered.
Axis - 18S Germany offers NA pact with Poland, mortarium on build.
Minors - Belg(-1), Bulg(-2), Czech(-3), Den(-2), Fin(-1), Iraq(+1),
Neth(-4), Per(-2), Pol(-4), Port(-1), Rum(-1)
Build - Japan(I), Italy(I,N)
US entry - 1 Coup cell - Belgium(FR), Bulgaria(IT)
Comment: YOW, kissed good bye to those minors!! This was a very
effective turn for the Axis, I was very surprise that
the Allies try for option 17 again. I think Allied 6 or 7
may be a better bet.
US Comment: Perhaps 6 or 7 would have been better, but we deemed
holding the USSR in the Pacific to be more important
at the time. Of course, if the effectiveness roll
could have been made on the previous turn, the way
would have been open to play 6 or 7. On the other
hand, USSR was reluctant to play 7 (Soviet Purge)
in that it would further weaken already outnumbered
forces in the Pacific.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul/Aug Init. Roll: 5(Axis) - 1(Allies)
Axis - 3S Japan opens trade with Europe, demobilizes army.
Allies - 6S France offer econ. pact with Netherland, offer disarmament.
Minors - Belg(+2), Czech(-3), Den(+1), Fin(+4), Greece(-3), Hun(-1),
Iraq(-1), Per(+1), Pol(-2), Rum(-1), Spain-R(-4), Swed(+1),
Turk(+3), Yugo(-3)
Build - CW(N), Russia(I,C), China(I)
US entry - 1 Coup cell - Poland(GE)
Comment: If Russia have been building INF and CAV, Allied option 7
can be played now(3 INF and 1 CAV to replace the removed
3 INF and 1 HQ around Vlad.)!! The minors continued their
slide toward the Axis. A real dilemma in the Pacific, can
Japan hold off China while crushing the Russian and also not
not building any INFs to replace the losses?? There are no
Japanese DIVs to absorb losses, a point overlooked by Russia.
French diarmed troops have to come from Mainland France!! If
not enough troops then loss of $$ is required according to
the rule.
US Comment: Allied 6 by way of closing the barn door after the
minors. Having a real problem with coups at this point.
France, which needs to spend the money for many of
the important countries, is always in debt. The Japanese
could probably have easily fought a two front war for
about 3 turns thanks to the limited nature of the Chinese
front and its naval power to assist the attack on the
USSR coast. After this, with Chinese gear ups, Japan
may have been in serious difficulty. It remains an
interesting question whether USSR surrender could have
been compelled in that amount of time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep/Oct Init. Roll: 4(Axis) - 2(Allies)
Axis - 17S Japo-Russian NA pact delcined.
Allies - 19P (failed) France & CW guarantee Rumania & Greece.
Minors - Aust(-1), Belg(+2), Bulg(-1), Czech(+1), Den(-1), Fin(-1),
Greece(+1), Hun(-1), Iraq(-1), Neth(-1), Nor(+1), Per(-1),
Pol(-1), Port(-1), Rum(-2), Spain-R(+1), Swed(+1), Turk(-1),
Yugo(-1)
Build - Japan(AC), Italy(AC)
US entry - 2 Coup cell - Neth(CW), Czech(GE)
Comment: Another failure on the Allies side(too bad), I'm not sure
why Allies option 19 was played this early. Probably would
have dropped more minors to the Axis camp faster. What the
hack are the Allies spending money on??
US Comment: Note still having to have CW buy coups in less important
minors. Allied 19 was an attempt to regain certain
strategic minors before all were lost. It is one of
the more milquetoasty options in that even though it
does not dramatically bring minors over, it does not
dramatically send any flying into the Axis camp either,
except Turkey, for which we had another option. At
this point, I believe minors like Czechoslovakia were
in danger of becoming un-coupable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov/Dec Init. Roll: 4(Allies) - 1(Axis)
Allies - 0 (voluntarily).
Axis - 13P Germany gears up PM from 1 to 2.
Minors - Aust(+1), Belg(+1), Czech(+1), Den(+1), Fin(-1), Neth(+1),
Nor(+1), Per(-1), Pol(+1), Rum(-1), Swed(-1), Turk(-1), Yugo(+1)
Special event - Republican party sweeps election(die roll of 12)!!!
Build - Germany(I,AC), Japan(AC,N), Italy(N), CW(N), Russia(ARM,HQ,I,N),
China(I), US(N,I)
US entry - 3 Coup cell - Belgium(GE)
Comment: Argh, things couldn't get any worse for the Allies. The
arrival of a new administration in US would really hurt
the US entry roll. US might not enter the General War
until late 1942, plenty of time to carve up Russia and France.
I was very surprised to see Russia build an ARM and a HS,
there should be better use for the $$ like a coup cell or more
INFs to allow it to purge(a total of $18 spend)!!
US Comment: We are not sure that the Republican administration
was entirely a bad thing. The US fleet had its
starting construction pool already cleared by 1938
and would have started construction on the 1942
CV and HS. The Japanese navy would not have had
an easy time. At this point, the Allies sought to
gain some short term effectivness by playing 0 since
we were unable to roll a 6 all afternoon.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yearly summary:
Well, the wheel of destiny was rolling fast and favorable for the Axis.
Most of the minors are on the Axis side of the track and this only after
a year of play. The Allies have yet to set an agenda and continue to
react to the Axis moves. My initial setup has really shocked the Russian
and he has reacted likewise. Of course, at that time I wouldn't even think
of starting the limited war with Russia until my DIVs arrived. On the
other hand looking back at it, I probably could have trounced him real
good and might even have taken all his cities on the Pacific Map before
he can surrendered(Political effectiveness of < 8). Looking at the init.
rolls for 1937, Russia can not roll alone to get an option done. The
best time is around May/Jun 1937 and the failed rolls in Jul/Aug with
the US being active for the Allies would probably means the fall of
Russia on the Pacific Map. I would probably go for a drive to E. Siberia
in hope of getting there first and just cordoned off the Vlad. defenders.
I would like to get a couple of coup cells into Mongolia and if my die
rolls(after the game stopped, I rolled a 2 and then a 1) have been good
then Russia is mine!! I should probably revived my mothballed fleet
of 1CV, 4HS & 6LS to get enough for shore bombardment.
US Comment: A defensive coup cell in Mongolia would have been a good buy.
--andrew
>From elric@imryrr Fri Dec 7 11:01:36 1990
From: elric@imryrr (Rick Heli)
To: allan@Sun.COM, andrewh@pyr.csuhayward.edu, elric@Eng, kmarks@Eng
Subject: Re: DoD/WiF - article 1937/1938
>From andrewh@pyr.csuhayward.edu Fri Dec 7 01:36:14 1990
From: Andrew Hung
To: allan@Sun.COM, elric@Eng, kmarks@Eng
Subject: DoD/WiF - article 1937/1938
This is the second part to the article about that DoD/WiF game. The
outlook so far is very grim for the Allies, but the worst is yet to come.
However, since we quit at 1938 Jan/Feb, we will never know the entire course
of the war and how our decisions would have affected it.
The notations remain the same, P for primary option and S for secondary.
The US entry indicated the guarenteed US entry status and the notation for
build is as per WiF.
Your comments will be deeply appreciated!! The inclueded comments are
just my reflection on the course of events and not any real criticsim on anyone.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1937
----
Jan/Feb Init. Roll: 5(Allies) - 2(Axis)
Allies - 13P France gears up PM from 1/2 to 1.
Axis - 5P Hitler supports Bulgarian land claim against Rumania.
Minors - Aust(-2), Belg(-1), Bulg(-2), Den(-1), Fin(+1), Neth(-1),
Nor(-1), Per(-1), Port(-1), Rum(+3), Spain-R(-1), Turk(+2)
Yugo(+2)
Build - Germany(2I,ARM), Japan(N), Italy(I), Russia(C,AC), US(2N)
US entry - 3 Coup cell - Greece(IT), Poland(CW)
Comment: Here and next two turns, Germany played off the Axis minors
against each other to get them of our side. A Republican
President allowed the US to build more weapons but ignored
the world events due to greater isolationism. All US entry
die roll at this point on is at +1. This is the sort of
nightmare I have imagined, unless the Allies can roll a
couple of 6's for init. and get the US political effectivenss
up. It didn't help for the US to gear up early, since it
reduced US effectiveness by 1. That's the reason for using
Allies 12 secondary to counter this, at least this would
make the Axis more careful about US entry. At this point,
I can build all the Japanese ships that I want. It would
have been interesting to see if I can launch a port strike
on both Pearl Harbor and the West Coast at the same time.
The only problem is getting crunched by the US navy early!
US Comment: France attempts to catch up with what is by now nearly
full German production.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mar/Apr Init. Roll: 2,3(Allies) - 2,2(Axis)
Allies - 0 (voluntarily).
Axis - 12S Germany concluded econ. & mil. pact with Rumania.
Minors - Aust(+2), Belg(+1), Bulg(+3), Czech(-2), Den(-1), Fin(-1),
Greece(+2), Hun(+2), Iraq(+1), Neth(+1), Nor(-1), Per(-1),
Port(-1), Rum(-4), Spain-R(+1), Swed(-1), Turk(+2). Yugo(-1)
Build - Japan(I,HQ), Italy(I), CW(I,N), Russia(I), France(I,N), US(2N)
US entry - 3 Coup cell - Mongolia(JA), Yugoslavia(FR)
Comment: This is the third turn in a row the Allies has the initiative
but unable to capitalize on it. Lousy weather continued to
plague the Pacific Map, could have try to attack Russia this
turn at the earliest. However, I have made the decision to
wait until 1938 to start it. This is due to the availability
of 2 more DIVs and time to build more INFs. I also forgot to
build the ARM(argh!!) early in order to drive toward Siberia.
The only good thing about not attacking China is the slow rate
of build for it, $1 per turn is really slow for China. I was
wondering if China might considered a NA pact with Japan!!
US Comment: In absence of good options, improve short term
effectiveness. China never considered a pact so that
she would be free to declare war in the event of
Japanese declaration of war on USSR.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May/Jun Init. Roll: 6(Axis) - 2(Allies)
Axis - 7P (failed) Axis Anti-Comintern Pact signed.
Allies - 27P (failed) US gears up PM from 1/4 to 1/2.
Minors - none
Build - Germany(I), Japan(2I), Italy(2I,AC), CW(I), Russia(I,ARM),
France(I,AC), China(I)
US entry - 3 Coup cell - Finland(GE), Denmark(CW)
Comment: The net result of the Political Effectiveness changes are
Japan(+1), Italy(-1), Germany(-1). A really strange thing
happened at this point on, the Axis won ever single init.
roll with 2(majority) & 3(3-1). This is really critical
as the Axis knew the options played by the Allies and can
maximize the favorable shifts for the minors. Still don't
understand why Russia is building ARM instead of lots of
INFs and CAVs. The only failure for the Axis occurred when
I rolled a big 11(argh!). I wondered if Allies option 27
should be played with secondary effect to get a big shifts
for some of the minors.
US Comment: Allies trying to keep with the Axis production wise
and failing yet again. I believe USSR building ARM
because of limited frontage in Pacific zone, still
the area most likely to erupt in war.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul/Aug Init. Roll: 6(Axis) - 5(Allies)
Axis - 6S Hitler supports Rumanian land claims against Hungary.
Allies - 27P (failed) as above.
Minors - Aust(-1), Bulg(+1), Czech(-1), Greece(+1), Hun(+2), Pol(-1),
Rum(-2), Turk(+2), Yugo(+1).
Build - Japan(2I), Italy(ARM,AC), CW(I), Russia(I,C,N), France(2I), US(N)
US entry - 2 Coup cell - Rumania(GE)
Comment: Another change in political effectiveness for the Axis,
Germany(0), Japan(+1), Italy(+1). I couldn't believe it,
but my political effectiveness is the highest I've seen.
What?!?! I think Phil is confused about the naval build req.
and try to build his navy before the General War. Otherwise,
I see no reason building the ship instead of INFs. Also he
adamantly refused to purge which locked out a lot of options.
Allies continued to fail at option, I hate to think what would
have happened if Japan was at war with Russia and Russia tried
to surrender quickly and failed. The +4 to Russia Political
Effectiveness is absolutely vital to its survival. On the
other hand, Phil has some pretty amazing die rolls. Although
I would have like to see him do so with the dices included
with the game!! Sometimes I wondered if his dices are loaded!
As he liked to say, "A die is a die and it didn't matter which
one he rolls!"
US Comment: At no time did the USSR ever feel safe enough to
allow Germany to remove 3 of her land units -- the
situation in the Pacific was untenable already. I
don't understand the naval build either though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sep/Oct Init. Roll: 3(Axis) - 1(Allies)
Axis - 2S Italy signs NA pact with Yugo., offer disarmament.
Allies - 4S CW signs econ. & mil. pact with Turkey.
Minors - Aust(+1), Belg(-3), Bulg(-4), Czech(-3), Den(-2), Greece(-5),
Hun(+5), Iraq(-1), Neth(-3), Nor(-3), Per(-4), Pol(+2),
Port(+1), Rum(-1), Spain-R(-3), Swed(-1), Turk(+7), Yugo(-1)
Build - Japan(I,ARM), Italy(I,ARM), Russia(I), France(AC)
US entry - 1 Coup cell - Netherland(GE)
Comment: Well, now the Allies have Turkey firmly in their camp, but
the Axis got the rest!! I couldn't believe that the Allies
initially want to pass and do nothing. I think anything is
better than watching all the minors fall to the Axis camp.
I would suggest the Allies to read the player's notes at
the end of the rule book and defined an objective ahead of
time. Despite the fact that a lot of the Allies options
dependent on Axis option as requirements, there are quite
a number that don't!! Can't let Axis moves dictate the
action or there won't be any minors left for the Allies.
US Comment: Turkey was one of the few minors left to us. Eventually
I believe it came all the way into Allied control, which
might have helped a little against the German drang nach
Osten. The Allies were considering declaring war against
Italy, which had left herself rather vulnerable. Since
it was crucial that this option work the first time (or
else lose all its surprise value), we were considering
0 so as to improve Effectiveness. As for Allied strategy,
it followed those objectives I listed at the outset,
which again, may have been flawed, but were certainly
flawed given Axis emphasis of play.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov/Dec Init. Roll: 4,3(Axis) - 4,1(Allies)
Axis - 7P Axis Anti-Cominterm Pact signed.
Allies - 0 (voluntarily).
Minors - Aust(-1), Belg(-1), Bulg(+1), Czech(+1), Den(-1), Fin(-3),
Greece(-1), Hun(-1), Iraq(-1), Neth(-1), Nor(-1), Per(+1),
Pol(+1), Port(-1), Rum(-2), Spain-R(+1), Swed(+1), Turk(-1),
Yugo(-1)
Build - Italy(I,ARM), CW(I), France(I,AC), US(I,N)
US entry - 1 Coup cell - Persia(GE), Persia(RU)
Comment: The Allies might considered extending the Maginot line,
with so many minors in the Axis camp.
US Comment: Still considering war with Italy, but likelihood of
bad weather persuaded against.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1938
----
Jan/Feb Init. Roll: 5(Axis) - 4(Allies)
Axis - 11S Germany signs econ. & mil. pact with Sweden.
Allies - 24P (failed) CW gears up PM from 1 to 2.
Minors - Aust(-1), Belg(-1), Bulg(-1), Czech(-1), Den(+1), Fin(+2),
Hun(-1), Neth(+1), Nor(+2), Pol(+1), Port(-1), Rum(-1),
Swed(-4)
Build - N/A
US entry - 1 Coup cell - Mongolia(JA), Spain(RU)
Comment: Well, at this point we decided to quit, but things are looking
real grim for the Allies. The proposed invasion of Italy
might have worked but I think there was an Italian INF in Rome.
That is a risky proposition at best. Two things which worked
against the Allies are: the lack of a clear agenda and the
loss of political init. to the Axis. I think we will have to
give this game several more tries before I'm convinced that
it's imbalance. Still I would prefer this addition to WiF,
at least Japan don't have to be stuck in a stalemate in China!
US Comment: The Italian INF was NOT in Rome, it was in the port.
Agreed that it was a risky proposition, but certainly
a justifiable risk at this point. Again, the Allied
agenda was clear, just not particularly useful in
light of the Axis one. Add that to the luckiness of
the Axis die rolling and Japanese infantry draws and
this result is not particularly surprising. I agree
that DOD still has much to offer however and the Allies
would play much more effectively in hindsight.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--andrew
>From andrewh@pyr.csuhayward.edu Fri Dec 7 14:36:39 1990
From: Andrew Hung
To: allan@Sun.COM, elric@Eng, kmarks@Eng
Subject: DoD/WiF comments
Well, I finally got some insights into the Allies decision making process.
I think the Allies did okay considering the various misfortunes that had
befallen on them. Beefing up the home nation is certainly a good idea
and getting US to gear up early would really help. Upon reviewing the
options available to the Allies, I was not surprised to see the small number
of the options without pre-req of any sort. I'm still not convinced
that an early Purge by Russia might not be better. I must said that the
Japanese initial draw for the INFs were utterly disgusting...all but one
are white printed INFs. The reinforcements were even more
disgusting...all white printed INFs. It would have been interesting to
see if I can hold off the Chinese troops while marching on Siberia. One
thing though, the limit on the number of attacks really made it
impossible to do much harm to each other.
About the Republican President, I diagreed on this since US entry
is really handicapped by the isolationism. So what if the US navy has
been built, you can't prevent the Japanese build up!! I could have
build up my navy in no time, starting in 1936 Nov/Dec build phrase.
I would have to gear up by attacking either China or Russia, preferably
the latter. To get the extra resources it would mean going into China
but this should not be a real problem after capture of Vlad. area.
Japan would also have the extra year and a half to do so. I don't
expect to see US entry anywhere near 5 before General War breakout.(note:
the US entry was at 1 when we stopped the game!) I would have much
prefered(as US) to have Democrats at the helm and also League of Nation,
let see the Axis do anything without angering the US public!! Of
course, this would mean a slower buildup but the end justifies the
means! Imagine US entry in early 1940, what a nightmare for Japan.
Definitely need to give it a couple more tries, hopefully the
events won't be so loopsided for the Allies...of course, this is
dependent on who we get at the helm for Germany. Well, any taker??
--andrew(new motto: one minor for the Allies, the rest for
us... :-P )
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